Is It Really SO Over With Finale?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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This is the only forum where I recognize some familiar nicks from old MakeMusic forum.
Obviously, I just joined, and I don't see much of this topic around here, so I'll stop if users are not in the mood.
I feel, however, that there should be a space - independent from the official one - where the users gather to voice their opinions and concerns.
The thing is, many of us have loads of files - some very complex - we created on the way through years, and it won't work to just try open in Dorico.
Obviously, I just joined, and I don't see much of this topic around here, so I'll stop if users are not in the mood.
I feel, however, that there should be a space - independent from the official one - where the users gather to voice their opinions and concerns.
The thing is, many of us have loads of files - some very complex - we created on the way through years, and it won't work to just try open in Dorico.
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Just make sure you have PDF's and XML's of everything. This is a lot of work, but there are ways to batch process folders.
XML's open in Dorico, though even the simplest ones require some work.
::: Bill
XML's open in Dorico, though even the simplest ones require some work.
::: Bill
Version 26.3 / 27.4 / Mac OS 10.15.5 Catalina
Finale user since the beginning of time.
Finale user since the beginning of time.
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Finale will continue to work on your computer for some time; but you need to be prepared for the day when it won't. MakeMusic won't give you any support, nor an updated version.
As Bill says, make sure you've got PDFs and MusicXML files of everything.
However, you'll find the Dorico forum very helpful in advice for how to get the results you want. And of course, future versions of Dorico may make things easier.
As Bill says, make sure you've got PDFs and MusicXML files of everything.
You're right that all documents will require "some revision" in Dorico, or any other app. For some projects, it might be nothing more than a few tweaks here and there; but for others, it will require some work to get them into shape.Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:38 amThe thing is, many of us have loads of files - some very complex - we created on the way through years, and it won't work to just try open in Dorico.
However, you'll find the Dorico forum very helpful in advice for how to get the results you want. And of course, future versions of Dorico may make things easier.
There have been a lot of opinions ventured on the subject. We've seen Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression; but I think most people are now at Acceptance. It's the hand that's been dealt.Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:38 amI feel, however, that there should be a space - independent from the official one - where the users gather to voice their opinions and concerns.
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Mr Icognito,
I started working with Dorico the day the crossgrade was offered. I found the transition immensely frustrating with Finale XML's showing up in Dorico looking like a rat's nest of squiggles. But over time I made a list of steps to take when importing XML so that the work I have to do on the Dorico side is usually not too bad. As Buontempi wrote, there is plenty of patient help to be found at the Dorico forum (including Buontempi himself) and instructional videos. I have not yet turned my back on Finale, but after a few months Dorico begins to make sense.
::: Bill
I started working with Dorico the day the crossgrade was offered. I found the transition immensely frustrating with Finale XML's showing up in Dorico looking like a rat's nest of squiggles. But over time I made a list of steps to take when importing XML so that the work I have to do on the Dorico side is usually not too bad. As Buontempi wrote, there is plenty of patient help to be found at the Dorico forum (including Buontempi himself) and instructional videos. I have not yet turned my back on Finale, but after a few months Dorico begins to make sense.
::: Bill
Version 26.3 / 27.4 / Mac OS 10.15.5 Catalina
Finale user since the beginning of time.
Finale user since the beginning of time.
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Thanks for the responses!
I decided against Dorico. I don't want to be some day again in the situation like with Finale now. Sibelius has also changed their terms too many times for my taste. I'd rather gradually go for the Lilypond/Frescobaldi, than allow situation like this arise again. The output of Lilypond is second to none, and it does open the xml version of FInale files.
I have no problems keeping some old hardware to keep running Finale. However, my concern is what happens after support is dropped altogether. I believe it would be only fair for Finale to be decoupled from registration on external servers. That would really be the bare minimum of fair play. Otherwise, it may happen that Finale calls back home, and there is nobody to answer, so saving becomes impossible.
I decided against Dorico. I don't want to be some day again in the situation like with Finale now. Sibelius has also changed their terms too many times for my taste. I'd rather gradually go for the Lilypond/Frescobaldi, than allow situation like this arise again. The output of Lilypond is second to none, and it does open the xml version of FInale files.
I have no problems keeping some old hardware to keep running Finale. However, my concern is what happens after support is dropped altogether. I believe it would be only fair for Finale to be decoupled from registration on external servers. That would really be the bare minimum of fair play. Otherwise, it may happen that Finale calls back home, and there is nobody to answer, so saving becomes impossible.
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Finale only phones home when it needs to get the authorization response for the hardware it's running on. Once the authorization code is on your computer, then you're good. It doesn't check again.Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:57 pmI believe it would be only fair for Finale to be decoupled from registration on external servers. That would really be the bare minimum of fair play. Otherwise, it may happen that Finale calls back home, and there is nobody to answer, so saving becomes impossible.
Creating a new build of Finale that doesn't run the authorization routines would be more cost and investment on the Finale ledger -- it may be more complicated than just deleting a few lines; and they would have to test and check that it wasn't causing any unforeseen problems on anyone's setups.
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I personally have problem with the sentimentally lenient approach towards Finale's owners. When they were selling Finale 27, did they mention they would completely blow it off in a near future? That would have been some advertising pitch. In my opinion more should have been done for the users. A reasonable option would have been FREE Dorico, and FREE Dorico transition (with classes and bells with whistles).
I understand that registration is once per installation on a single device. For a variety of reasons, I have to do it several times a year.
The decoupling from registration servers would be something like a bare bones minimum. I don't think it would be expensive, and the only thing I see which is expensive, is the trouble caused thus far to the users, and even more foreseeable trouble in the future.
I understand that registration is once per installation on a single device. For a variety of reasons, I have to do it several times a year.
The decoupling from registration servers would be something like a bare bones minimum. I don't think it would be expensive, and the only thing I see which is expensive, is the trouble caused thus far to the users, and even more foreseeable trouble in the future.
- motet
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Isolating and disabling the registration check in the code should indeed be easy. That would make Finale freeware for all, though, which would potentially last a long time, at least on Windows, so perhaps Dorico and the like wouldn't like that.
I think Finale 27 is garbage, so it likely wouldn't help me personally.
I think Finale 27 is garbage, so it likely wouldn't help me personally.
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It would only make sense to unlock any and every Finale version. BTW, Finale wasn't locked by authorization for the most of its existence. And if it doesn't suit other companies - well, one cannot please everyone...motet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:48 pmIsolating and disabling the registration check in the code should indeed be easy. That would make Finale freeware for all, though, which would potentially last a long time, at least on Windows, so perhaps Dorico and the like wouldn't like that.
I think Finale 27 is garbage, so it likely wouldn't help me personally.
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Me too.
I bought a laptop where I want to install Finale. And then I will not go online on this computer again, so I might get the chance to work on finale almost infinitely... I am almost 60, and this will solve the problem...
Peter
Finale 2009 and 27/German on Windows 10
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"If you don't buy it, we might not make it anymore!"Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmI personally have problem with the sentimentally lenient approach towards Finale's owners. When they were selling Finale 27, did they mention they would completely blow it off in a near future?

Is it really reasonable, for a business with a loss-making product to give $1000 of software and training to everyone who ever bought it?Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmIn my opinion more should have been done for the users. A reasonable option would have been FREE Dorico, and FREE Dorico transition (with classes and bells with whistles).
It's 5 months since the announcement. No one is working on Finale anymore. It's done.Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmThe decoupling from registration servers would be something like a bare bones minimum. I don't think it would be expensive, and the only thing I see which is expensive, is the trouble caused thus far to the users, and even more foreseeable trouble in the future.
Yes, it's a shock, and a painful reminder of how much we rely on all kinds of fragile things, in our 21st-century privilege. You can keep using Finale; but just like people who use Encore or SCORE, you'll have to maintain the environment yourself, and hope nothing breaks. And be prepared when it does.
Finale doesn't "phone home", once authorized. You don't need to stay offline. Your biggest problem will be Windows 11 updates....
- motet
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I just tried disconnecting from the Internet and then running Finale and it works fine, so I suspect it's somehow recorded it's registration internally somewhere rather than checking the MM server each time it runs. But if that were the case, then "deauthorization" wouldn't work, so I don't know. Perhaps it checks periodically?
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Deauthorization needs to contact the server to "unregister" your installation from MM's count of your authorised seats. You can also do this from the website, in your account.
Authorization also contacts the server. Finale sends a code based on your hardware profile, and the server returns a response. The response is stored on your computer, and is used to verify the hardware profile each launch.
Finale does not contact the server again. If the server shuts down, Finale will continue to work until the hardware profile code doesn't 'match' the response code stored on your disk.
On a Mac, the authorisation codes are stored at /Library/Application Support/MakeMusic/, in a hidden file called .regdata27.txt. I imagine on Windows it will be stored in the Registry.
Authorization also contacts the server. Finale sends a code based on your hardware profile, and the server returns a response. The response is stored on your computer, and is used to verify the hardware profile each launch.
Finale does not contact the server again. If the server shuts down, Finale will continue to work until the hardware profile code doesn't 'match' the response code stored on your disk.
On a Mac, the authorisation codes are stored at /Library/Application Support/MakeMusic/, in a hidden file called .regdata27.txt. I imagine on Windows it will be stored in the Registry.
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BuonTempi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:24 amMr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmI personally have problem with the sentimentally lenient approach towards Finale's owners. When they were selling Finale 27, did they mention they would completely blow it off in a near future?That is exactly the 'sentimentally lenient approach towards Finale's owners' I was talking about.
Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmIn my opinion more should have been done for the users. A reasonable option would have been FREE Dorico, and FREE Dorico transition (with classes and bells with whistles).Another instance.
Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:49 pmThe decoupling from registration servers would be something like a bare bones minimum. I don't think it would be expensive, and the only thing I see which is expensive, is the trouble caused thus far to the users, and even more foreseeable trouble in the future.Not correct. Many do.
One should be prepared, but not accept everything on bad terms.BuonTempi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:24 amYes, it's a shock, and a painful reminder of how much we rely on all kinds of fragile things, in our 21st-century privilege. You can keep using Finale; but just like people who use Encore or SCORE, you'll have to maintain the environment yourself, and hope nothing breaks. And be prepared when it does.
Seems like several users are uncomfortable with this authorization staying.
If they are not supporting, not selling, not planning to do anything with Finale in the future, why they just don't get rid of us?
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One man's sentimental leniency is another's pragmatic realism. What would you like me to do? Throw some choice insults? I can shout and scream and threaten legal action, and demand that they continue to throw money at it, if you think it will help. Or start a petition to request that they open source the code. There's even conspiracy theories about Finale's demise I could echo. But since others have already done this without success, I'm not sure there's much point.Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:43 pmThat is exactly the 'sentimentally lenient approach towards Finale's owners' I was talking about.
Development has ceased. There'll be some people fielding support enquiries, until August. Oh, and someone looking after the server.
Who else is working on Finale? Even the CEO who wrote the letter has gone.
Get rid of us .... more than washing their hands of the whole thing this August?Mr_Incognito wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 6:43 pmIf they are not supporting, not selling, not planning to do anything with Finale in the future, why they just don't get rid of us?
- motet
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I believe you can or could deauthorize a copy that's not longer on a working machine by logging in to MMs website, this freeing up a slot to authorize another copy. If authorization/deauthorization works the way you say, what has kept keep someone from repeatedly deauthorizing and reauthorizing on more and more machines? If it never checks after being authorized, a copy won't know it's been deauthorized.
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Anybody tried IRL?motet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:56 pmI believe you can or could deauthorize a copy that's not longer on a working machine by logging in to MMs website, this freeing up a slot to authorize another copy. If authorization/deauthorization works the way you say, what has kept keep someone from repeatedly deauthorizing and reauthorizing on more and more machines? If it never checks after being authorized, a copy won't know it's been deauthorized.
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Yes, I imagine that someone could backup the registration state, de-authorize Finale, and then restore the registration state on disk.motet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:56 pmI believe you can or could deauthorize a copy that's not longer on a working machine by logging in to MMs website, this freeing up a slot to authorize another copy. If authorization/deauthorization works the way you say, what has kept keep someone from repeatedly deauthorizing and reauthorizing on more and more machines? If it never checks after being authorized, a copy won't know it's been deauthorized.
It's certainly possible to make the demo be "day 0" of 30 days forever.
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- motet
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I think you missed my point. If Finale never checks the web server once it's been authorized, then if you deauthorize via the MM server, how would the deauthorized copy ever know it's been deauthorized?
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Ah. Good point. I'm not sure. However, I have known other software that did exactly that -- you could still use your deactivated copy.
Finale's licensing system is very simple; and I dare say that someone will work out how to generate the response codes, or otherwise crack it.
Assuming that MM feels any obligation to comply; or is legally able to release the code. (It may contain code licensed to them from others.) They have already said that they won't release it.
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At some stage the owner company wii want to get rid of the Finale users altogether. Better to have a working software for good, than to be unable to activate at some stage. They don't have to open source it, although that would be a favor to the culture of music in the world.